Curse

arredondo · Aug 04, 2005, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

casters isn't a single group. its 2/3 of the character classes in the game. Dropping 2 lines from mes, 2 lines from necro, all energy maintainment from ele and all of prot, the best of smite, and some of heal with one skill isn't the same as saying "well, you can gimp warriors too".

But you can gimp warrior teams easier than caster teams (if there was no NR). They still keep up a good fight, but in general casters at this time seem to have at least a bit of an overall edge to non-casters without NR. Mesmers alone have 15+ skills it seems to do the trick on Warriors. Not that Warriors can't win, just that they exert a bit more to get the job done.

I'm not saying that they should or should not adjust NR if Arena.net determines it is too tough (or boring) of a battle for casters to take Spirit teams out. Just that the cycle of what beats what may be a little underdeveloped in that the answer may not be as simple as 'use skill X', but implement team strategy X (and still have a chance to survive non-spirit builds of course). There's possibly combinations out there that can be effective. If not, then I'd agree with an adjustment.

hydrak · Aug 04, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishin

You were wrong from line 1. A large number of the people complaining/pointing out the imbalance in Nature's Renewal are members of top guilds, and testers.

Who are the members of top guilds and complaining about NR? Give us some examples.

Btw, I based my previous post on the level of competition I experienced in tombs. And the conclusion is that bad and one-dimensional teams are the ones who cry so hard about NR.

dargon · Aug 04, 2005, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaphism

You mean called shot, and that only recharges attack skills.

Actually, it's Determined Shot, get your corrections correct next time

Is NR powerful? Yes. So is illusionary weapon, my ranger can blind you and have whirling defence up and still get owned because it doesn't say that if your attack would hit deal X dmg, it says, each attack you deal X dmg, hit or not. NR is the ONLY enchanment removal that rangers have. Mesmers and Necros each have atleast 2 skills/spells that either remove enchantments or cause some other benefit to them for having an enchanment laden target. Furthermore, NR is fitting for a Ranger. Rangers are close to nature (hence, pets, and other things related to nature in their arsenal). Enchantments are not natural. Seems logical to me that Rangers would have a way of removing them in 1 fell swoop. Also, don't forget that Necros have a wonderful little spell called Well of the Profane. Targets a corpse (like all necro wells) and everyone in range looses all their enchantments and can't get new ones while in range. Atleast NR will allow you to re-enchant after it's done, allbeit at a higher cost in time.

I do however agree that spirit spamming is a little over the top, therefore, this is my idea on that matter. If a ranger summons a spirit thats already in play, that spirit is teleported to his/her location and no new effect is granted until the spirit dies and is recast. As far as HoH goes, this could result in an almost chesslike battle between opposing rangers as each repositions their opponents spirits to their liking

hydrak · Aug 04, 2005, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

I do however agree that spirit spamming is a little over the top, therefore, this is my idea on that matter. If a ranger summons a spirit thats already in play, that spirit is teleported to his/her location and no new effect is granted until the spirit dies and is recast. As far as HoH goes, this could result in an almost chesslike battle between opposing rangers as each repositions their opponents spirits to their liking

Yep, some of the spirit spamming tactics being used in tombs are lame.

Orochim4ru · Aug 04, 2005, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

NR is the ONLY enchanment removal that rangers have.

Warriors, eles and monks have no enchantment removal at all. Just because rangers only have 1 skill that does it doesn't mean the skill has to be absurdly powerful, regardless of how "in touch" with nature they are.

Aug 04, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34

dargon I want to ask a serious question here:

Do you really believe all the stuff in your last post?

hydrak · Aug 04, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

Warriors, eles and monks have no enchantment removal at all.

Warriors, eles and monks can have enchantment removal too if they want to.

Silmor · Aug 04, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherReins

i wasn't trying to start a fight.

Well, you sure didn't try understanding what the heck you were talking about, insulting people who spent many hours experiencing NR in situations where it actually matters (i.e. coordinated teams) and meticulously documenting and debating this issue, by telling them to 'stop crying', in one simple sentence arrogantly dismissing their efforts as misguided and petty. If that's not trying to start a fight, I'm not really sure what the heck you were thinking when you started a new thread on this problem.

Weezer_Blue · Aug 04, 2005, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherReins

i do not see how this skill is unbalanced, i use it quite frequently in the random arenas and it has minimal effect, if any at all. the only way i see this being useful is if you have a disrupting skill to keep enchantments off of the person you are fighting.

there are other skills that need to be looked at, such as hex breaker. hm, a 5 energy stance(note: not an enchantment) that nullifies all hexes, takes 0 seconds to activate, and only 5 seconds to recharge? spell breaker takes 15, only lasts 15 seconds, and is elite! and don't say, "heh bring wild blow noob" because it is then that the proof comes out that the skill is unbalanced. if i need to start bringing one specific skill to counter one specific other, things need to be looked at.

So you're saying that, judging from your infinite knowledge gained from the random arenas (*laugh*), you think this skill is not worth fixing? it removes every enchantment and hex on the field!!! is that not a huge effect?

On another note. I wish people would quit yelling "whiner" every time someone tries to get something fixed. "0mfgz0rz!!11 he has a complaint about something seriously wrong with the current state of the game. I think I'll start a flame war with him and drown out everything he said in meaningless flames!!!11one"

BigTru · Aug 04, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Play as a Warrior who is subject to hundreds of skills designed specifically to screw them over, counters that are waaaay worst than what Nature's Renewal can ever do. Play that warrior for about a month or so and then come tell me that Nature's Renewal is the most unbalanced skill in the game. That way I can pinpoint all the people who are, for lack of better words, "n00bs".

Just a few skills that Warriors have to look out for, most of which are SOLEY designed for Warriors:

Throw Dirt
Dust Trap
Ineptitude
Glimmering Mark
Eruption
Belly Smash
Fainthartedness
Spirit Shackles
Insidious Parasite
Price of Failure
Shadow of Fear
Spiteful Spirit
Tainted Flesh
Blinding Flash
Ward Against Melee
Armor of Frost
Blurred Vision
Magnetic Aura
Aegis
Guardian
Pascifism
Amnity
Shield of Judgement
Bane Signet
Feral Lunge
Lightning Reflexes
Dryder's Defence
Whirling Defence
Axe Twist
Devastating Hammer
Bonneti's Defence
Gladiator's Defence
Disciplined Stance
Defence Stance
Shield Stance
Riposte
Deadly Riposte
Empathy

EmperorTippy · Aug 04, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Almost all of those hurt Rangers as much. In a good team they don't really matter either because condition/hex removal is realitivly easy in a good team and the warrior or ranger won't be neturalized for long at all while NR screws about half the skills in the game.

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nohooiam · Aug 04, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30

i was pissed off that nature's renewal is so damn good. but now i use it, so i'm happy.

EmperorTippy · Aug 04, 2005, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Everyone complaining about it freely admits that they use it but also advocates for it being rebalanced as it is way overpowered.

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Tuna · Aug 04, 2005, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Play that warrior for about a month or so and then come tell me that Nature's Renewal is the most unbalanced skill in the game

I've played a warrior since E3 for Everyone and I'm telling you that Natures Renewal is the most unbalanced skill in the game.

hydrak · Aug 04, 2005, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Play as a Warrior who is subject to hundreds of skills designed specifically to screw them over, counters that are waaaay worst than what Nature's Renewal can ever do. Play that warrior for about a month or so and then come tell me that Nature's Renewal is the most unbalanced skill in the game. That way I can pinpoint all the people who are, for lack of better words, "n00bs".

Just a few skills that Warriors have to look out for, most of which are SOLEY designed for Warriors:

Throw Dirt
Dust Trap
Ineptitude
Glimmering Mark
Eruption
Belly Smash
Fainthartedness
Spirit Shackles
Insidious Parasite
Price of Failure
Shadow of Fear
Spiteful Spirit
Tainted Flesh
Blinding Flash
Ward Against Melee
Armor of Frost
Blurred Vision
Magnetic Aura
Aegis
Guardian
Pascifism
Amnity
Shield of Judgement
Bane Signet
Feral Lunge
Lightning Reflexes
Dryder's Defence
Whirling Defence
Axe Twist
Devastating Hammer
Bonneti's Defence
Gladiator's Defence
Disciplined Stance
Defence Stance
Shield Stance
Riposte
Deadly Riposte
Empathy

Nah. We the PRO PvPers would rather be playing monks or elementalists and complaining about NR than playing the weak characters like warriors.

dargon · Aug 04, 2005, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

dargon I want to ask a serious question here:

Do you really believe all the stuff in your last post?

Yes, I do. I don't believe the skill itself is unbalanced, only the ability to spam it.

EmperorTippy · Aug 04, 2005, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

Nah. We the PRO PvPers would rather be playing monks or elementalists and complaining about NR than playing the weak characters like warriors.

I have every single item unlocked on 1 account (done pre faction) and all skills unlocked on my other account. I play whatever class my friends need in PvP. MY faviorte character to play in PvP ATM is a mesmer (excluding NR) or a warrior. I also play a spirit spamming ranger that can drop a NR every 7-10 seconds with no trouble. Now you tell me that a skill that doubles cast time of enchants and hexes and can wipe them every 7-10 seconds isn't unbalanced and one of the most powerful skills in the game. With this skill I can make most hexes and enchantments something that lasts 2-5 seconds and when I'm coordinated with another ranger like me we can make it so that no hex or enchant lasts more than 2 seconds.

hydrak · Aug 04, 2005, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

I have every single item unlocked on 1 account (done pre faction) and all skills unlocked on my other account. I play whatever class my friends need in PvP. MY faviorte character to play in PvP ATM is a mesmer (excluding NR) or a warrior. I also play a spirit spamming ranger that can drop a NR every 7-10 seconds with no trouble. Now you tell me that a skill that doubles cast time of enchants and hexes and can wipe them every 7-10 seconds isn't unbalanced and one of the most powerful skills in the game. With this skill I can make most hexes and enchantments something that lasts 2-5 seconds and when I'm coordinated with another ranger like me we can make it so that no hex or enchant lasts more than 2 seconds.

Just to let you know. There are different healing methods that don't depend on enchantments. And there are ways to deal damage that don't depend on enchantments or hexs.

EmperorTippy · Aug 04, 2005, 04:10 AM // 04:10

^^
I know the point is that no skill should be able to make 2 full classes of skills unplayable in higher levle PvP. To use NR you don't even need any points in its linked attribute, its affect is unblockable, it is global, and it is massivily unbalanced. Enchants are also unbalanced in terms of the healing ball builds going around but even they were less destructive to game play than NR is. Go to the thread I posted a link to for a full indepth explanation by various people.

Orochim4ru · Aug 04, 2005, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Just to let you know. There are different healing methods that don't depend on enchantments. And there are ways to deal damage that don't depend on enchantments or hexs.

Duh, and now everyone is forced to use only those methods, instead of being able to come up new ideas. Dropping a huge chunk of the skills in the game (including all the best defences with the exception of wards) doesn't lead to fun gaming.

As for the person whining about how warriors are discriminated against: be W/Mo and bring smite hex/purge condition, or be W/N and use rigor mortis. What's that? you can hit people again? Oh My!